Mortality rate.

[Legionnaire]

There's been vouched an idea to change the system and limit the losses to 1 mini per game, with the rest that should have died treated as old war wound and they might not participate on a roll of 1-3, but otherwise alive and well.

My take on that is that I speak against it, grounded on these principals:

1) The "Dead" result can also be treated as that the figure has had enough and ekes out a more quiet living henceforth. Which is more probable for a Henchman who doesn't have the drive and tenacity as the Heroes.

2) If you're "guaranteed" a maximum of only one real casualty per game I get a feeling of invincibility, you don't have the potential to really loose anything, even if you loose 99% of your Posse. What have the other minis been hit by then? Rubber bullets and imaginary knives?

3) It also would make the game seem more like Paintball. In that sense that no-one really gets hurt, and lets face it, there are supposed to be guns and sharp implements they use. My vision in basically any game I play, unless it's intentionally cinematic in character, is that combat is dangerous. If you get shot, stabbed or fall off a tall building you will ultimately face the possibility that you will die.

4) And it seems to me at a quick look-over, that with this system it will be difficult to bypass someone higher up on the Infamy scale. Primary due to the "one loss only"- rule. Because the others in each posse would still survive and thus accumulate 1 Exp, even if they might not be able to participate in the next game, and they would also retain their Exp. So instead of the facing the prospects that 50% (however not really likely, unless you roll really badly) of your Posse gets wiped out and you loose hard-earned Skills and experienced fighters, you can technically just plod along.

That's my take on it, but if the majority decides to accept the rule I will take it on board. After all, if everyone else is happy with it, so be it.

The Swede.

[joeoe18]

Well there are plenty other negative alternatives to "Dead" that involve being hurt. Every D66 roll from 16-36 is some form of injury. The overall goal of the potential rule change is to minimize the chance of a posse being decimated by bad dice rolls. Sure you can play more conservatively to minimize the figures taken out of action, but that limits the action and encourages running away.

Also there is the suggestion that, for henchman, that if you roll 'Dead' after a model has already died that he has sustained a serious injury and has a 50-50 chance of missing every game. This is still a farily hefty price to pay.

With that being said, and having thought about it a bit more, I think that perhaps the 1 death rule should only apply to heroes. After all it's their loss that will be felt more, with the money we're earning now it's not to difficult to replace henchman, and it skill keeps a sense of danger in the game.

Point 4) is well worth bearing in mind I think. Hopefully if we remove the restriction for henchmen dying and implement some variation of the infamy rules we've been talking about elsewhere this shouldn't be a factor.

Overall I do beleive that we need to come up with some way of stopping what has happened twice already. Namely posses being effectively destroyed by bad dice rolls after only one fight. It doesn't seem fair, or conducive to exciting battles, that that amount of misfortune could befall a posse that often.

[Legionnaire]

Joes suggestion might be some "middle" road through a muddy swamp. If you limit the number of possible Heroes dying to 1, but still accepting the numerous Serious Wounds et al, it might work out. But still keep the rule of 1-2 for a Henchmans survival as Dead. Because as Joe wrote, loosing one Hero is still a pretty serious blow to your team, loosing Experience and Money in the process.

Even though I'm a strong advocate for keeping the rules as they are, because as I pointed out, combat is dangerous, you might get killed...

The Swede.

[dave3]

I would concur with you, Ove. If a player gets his fool butt shot off, that is tough cheese! this is part of the game, without the risk, there is no game, I think. If you are fairly certain your hero will survive anything he does, where is the sport! I vote to keep the rules as they are.
Dave

[joeoe18]

Well I think two people opposed to the change is enough make things stay the same.

[terrywarden]

I have been reading your posts with interest; and I hope you dont mind an opinion from an outsider who isnt playing the game. I assume that in your game turns you can pull out of a fight at any time? Surely the whole basis of a campagin is the risk and knowing when to back down; or when to take go for broke.

[joeoe18]

Sept 23, 2008 19:26:37 GMT terrywarden said:

I have been reading your posts with interest; and I hope you dont mind an opinion from an outsider who isnt playing the game. I assume that in your game turns you can pull out of a fight at any time? Surely the whole basis of a campagin is the risk and knowing when to back down; or when to take go for broke.

You are only allowed to pull out of a fight after you have lost at least half the models in your posse.

The worry that some of us have is, firstly that the ease with which models can die (as well as a few other factors) make it strategically better to run away as soon as possible in most cases, and secondly that some bad dice rolls in the post-game can put you well behind your opponents.

I don't think it's a major issue though overall, and it looks like things are going to stay the way they are.

[Legionnaire]

It might have been suggested earlier but I put it up anyway. How about limiting the Dead- result on Heroes to only 1/ game? It still smarts pretty much, and if you're unlucky enough to roll more Dead rolls on Heroes, you reroll them until you hit a result between 16-36 instead (some kind of injury, including multiple injuries), yes he's taken a beating but survives to fight another day. The Dead rolls for Henchmen stay as they are, on a roll of 1-2 they're gone.

Despite my views I can sympatize with Joe, who was victim of having a long string of bad Survival rolls, resulting in his first posse folding and starting another one from scratch. And Mike had three rolls of 15 after his last game according to Joe, which meant that 3 of his Heroes ended up at Boot Hill, doesn't make anyone happy.

The Swede.

[joeoe18]

I'd be in favour of that, there's a big difference between an injured hero and a dead one. But it should still be enough of a risk to keep things strategic.

What does everyone else think?

[John]

I'm happy with pretty much any solution, at least from a personal perspective less change means more ability to hamstring other Posses.

- - -

Sept 23, 2008 13:43:57 GMT Legionnaire said:

4) And it seems to me at a quick look-over, that with this system it will be difficult to bypass someone higher up on the Infamy scale. Primary due to the "one loss only"- rule. Because the others in each posse would still survive and thus accumulate 1 Exp, even if they might not be able to participate in the next game, and they would also retain their Exp. So instead of the facing the prospects that 50% (however not really likely, unless you roll really badly) of your Posse gets wiped out and you loose hard-earned Skills and experienced fighters, you can technically just plod along.

The opposite seems true, all other factors being equal a small gang will take more casualties than a large gang. This means that Large gangs will rarely be rolling for more than 1-2 injuries and thus very rarely lose more than 1 model.
Small gangs which will lose more will take 4-5 injuries and thus are much more likely to lose 2+ models.