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Post by mike on Jul 17, 2009 18:55:55 GMT
Yes Steve I think you're probably right, this does feel like an attampt to the limit the uber-powerful builds.
For me the telling conditions are forbidding of named characters and restricting all armies to three spell casters. And they're right, Teclic backed up by three level 2 mages and the Banner of Sorcery is just
And if you really wanted to Rob, under these rules you could still do the Star Dragon build. The only trouble with that is that a fully tooled-up prince on a star dragon come in at around 640 points, which seems a little expensive in a 2250 point army to me. That said, I haven't completely rejected the idea.
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Post by khaosgoblin on Jul 20, 2009 19:31:28 GMT
Rules pack updated: miltonkeynesmassacre.moonfruit.com/#Confirmed entrants, with a maximum of 40 places. 1 Mark Wildeman 1st Company Veterans 2 Matt Howley 1st Company Veterans 3 Ben Johnson Bad Dice 4 Ben Curry Bad Dice 5 Ben Hampshire Brackley Warhammer Club 6 Lee Palmer Clapham Wargamers 7 Bart Kolodziejczyk Clapham Wargamers 8 Olaf Holm Clapham Wargamers 9 Chris Tamplin Clapham Wargamers 10 Robert Michell Clapham Wargamers 11 Steve Hampshire MKWGS 12 Jim Moore MKWGS 13 John kitchener MKWGS 14 Neil Bosher MKWGS 15 Joshua Kerr MKWGS 16 Paul Thompson Northampton Warlords 17 Martin Thompson Northampton Warlords 18 Chris Newland Watford Wargames Club 19 Ben Hodges Watford Wargames Club
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Post by John on Jul 20, 2009 20:34:53 GMT
Besides even with these restrictions it's perfectly possible to build a solid, if not overwhelming army with most lists, even HE. The restrictions don't limit power level at all for a number of the most effective tournament builds out there. Given the confirmed players so far, I'm certain the event will see (at the minimum) both a top level DE and DoC army. A three caster limit is really not an issue, the best Vamp builds tend to have a Wight King of some kind anyway, Book of Hoeth based HE don't need more than 2 casters, A slaan + engine is enough especially when you want a couple of Saurus chars anyway. (The above isn't criticism, I just want to make the point that the restrictions imo don't limit overall effectiveness of the most effective armies around atm).
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Post by John on Jul 20, 2009 20:38:09 GMT
And if you really wanted to Rob, under these rules you could still do the Star Dragon build. The only trouble with that is that a fully tooled-up prince on a star dragon come in at around 640 points, which seems a little expensive in a 2250 point army to me. It's a pretty widely held view that the best 2k HE army is based on a Star Dragon riding Prince (this happens to be my opinion). A book of hoeth based magic build is good, but without the edge that Teclis gives it I don't think it can compete with the Dragon. Daemons did a lot to limit the Dragon build, but the ring of Hotek and Infernal Puppet made Book based magic lists so risky that I would never suggest fielding them in a competitive tournament.
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Post by Mark Wightman on Jul 21, 2009 7:55:47 GMT
Besides even with these restrictions it's perfectly possible to build a solid, if not overwhelming army with most lists, even HE. The restrictions don't limit power level at all for a number of the most effective tournament builds out there. Given the confirmed players so far, I'm certain the event will see (at the minimum) both a top level DE and DoC army. Indeed. The Bad Dice Ben's will both bring nasty armies. Ben C's the top ranked player in the UK at the moment too. His DE armies are all pretty evil, but he's been working on TK, which aren't effected by the 3 caster limit either.
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Post by Prince Ethilanel on Jul 21, 2009 10:39:38 GMT
Mark,
If the Bens are coming then expect this tournament too be uber hard. Ive played aginst them a couple of times now, they are extremely competent gamers. They know there builds inside out. SO this tournament will be as hard as they come, given the restrictions.
Mike if you want to do anything apart from be gaming fodder you will need to take a fully tooled up stardragon build.
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Post by mike on Jul 21, 2009 11:36:07 GMT
And if you really wanted to Rob, under these rules you could still do the Star Dragon build. The only trouble with that is that a fully tooled-up prince on a star dragon come in at around 640 points, which seems a little expensive in a 2250 point army to me. It's a pretty widely held view that the best 2k HE army is based on a Star Dragon riding Prince (this happens to be my opinion). A good point John, and not one I'd argue with too strongly. A prince on a star dragon really is a killing machine, as good as any in the game. The problem is getting him in the right place at the right time. I fact, after last nights' fiasco (pitting a prince, 2 nobles & a L1 scroll bearer against Marks' 3 wizard DE build, in which I was obliged to concede in round 4), I'm giving serious thought to a Star Dragon build (I hadn't fully ruled it out anyway). Either that or a three wizard build (a L4 archmage backed up by two L2 mages).
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Post by Mark Wightman on Jul 21, 2009 14:32:10 GMT
The L4 and 2 x L2's was certainly fun for the DE's. Not sure they achieved enough for the 700+ points they cost, but they were entertaining.
Seven, yes seven, miscasts in four turns.
Turn 1:
Black Horror - scrolled Bladewind - (dispelled) Word of Pain - miscast (wound) Chillwind - miscast (end phase)
Turn 2:
Bladewind (miscast) Chillwind (1 wound on shadow warriors) Power of Darkness (dispel failed) Word of Pain (dispel failed) Chillwind (miscast)
Turn 3:
Black Horror (scrolled) Chillwind (dispel failed - killed mage) Doombolt (miscast - opponent gets spell) Black Horror (failed)
Turn 4:
Doombolt (miscast - opponent gets spell) Black Horror (miscast) Bladewind (killed 3 Dragon princes) Chillwind (killed 3 bowmen)
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Post by khaosgoblin on Jul 24, 2009 18:39:19 GMT
Entrants update, glad to have some Gladiators along!
1 Mark Wildeman 1st Company Veterans 2 Matt Howley 1st Company Veterans 3 Ben Curry Bad Dice 4 Ben Johnson Bad Dice 5 MarkWightman Bedford Gladiators 6 Michael Armstrong Bedford Gladiators 7 Ben Hampshire Brackley Warhammer Club 8 Bart Kolodziejczyk Clapham Wargamers 9 Chris Tamplin Clapham Wargamers 10 Lee Palmer Clapham Wargamers 11 Olaf Knesebeck Clapham Wargamers 12 Robert Michell Clapham Wargamers 13 Giles Andrews Clapham Wargamers 14 Jim Moore MKWGS 15 John kitchener MKWGS 16 Neil Bosher MKWGS 17 Steve Hampshire MKWGS 18 Joshua Kerr MKWGS 19 Martin Thompson Northampton Warlords 20 Paul Thompson Northampton Warlords 21 Andy Spikey Club 22 Ben Hodges Watford Wargames Club 23 Chris Newland Watford Wargames Club 24 Kevin Dennis ? 25 Chris ? 26 Martyn Furnival ?
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Post by dave3 on Jul 25, 2009 0:56:39 GMT
Don't forget your club shirts lads! good hunting Kap'la Dave
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Post by Mark Wightman on Sept 2, 2009 18:13:26 GMT
Mike - the first round draw is up. We've both drawn Oxford opponents.
You're facing an Empire army, so watch out for those cannon. I've drawn Vamps and suspect a Zombie Dragon.
Hmm . . . .
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Post by Mark Wightman on Sept 7, 2009 11:43:45 GMT
I've got to say this was a fantastic event. Had a chance to chat to plenty of local gamers and there were plenty of talk about arranging future inter-club games.
The lists there were incredibly hard - even with the restrictions. At the start of the first round I glanced around at the tables nearby, and on five nearest tables I could see 2 Star Dragons, 2 Bloodthirsters, 2 Black Dragons, 2 Anvils, 1 Zombie Dragon, 1 Wyvern. Plus my opponent had a Zombie Dragon.
My three opponents were:
VC: Zombie Dragon, 2 Fighty Vamps, Black Knights, 20 Ghouls, 2 x 10 Skellies, 2 x 5 Wolves, 5 Bats, Varghulf, 8 Wraiths. Won 2340/902 = 24 TP
HE: Lord on Foot, BSB, Caddy, 20+ Phoenix Guard, 20+ White Lions, 5 Dragon Princes, 2 x 10 Spears, 5 Shadow Warriors, 2 Chariots, 2 Bolties. Won 1542/990 = 16 TP
VC: Lord, BSB (L2), Vamp (L2) all on foot, Wight King, 5 x 12 Ghouls, 2 x 5 Bats, 2 x 5 Wolves, 2 Corpse Carts, 5 Wraiths plus Banshee. Won 813/395 = 14 TP
The first game was an absolute blast. I was really struggling with failed terror tests hurting me badly during the early game, plus a magic phase ending miscast with my first spell in turn 2. Eventually his Dragons luck ran out and my Hydra caught up with his Lord in my turn 6 and that was that.
The second game was harder work. We only managed 5 turns, which is a shame as I would have finished the Phoenix Guard and Lord for sure given one more turn. 2 Miscasts gifted my opponent 365 pts in this one, but I can't complain Black Horror and Bladewind devastated his army once I'd burned through the scrolls.
The third game was very hard work. Ghoul spam with 12PD, plus 3 bounds. In my opponents first turn he used 3 dice on curse of years and 9 single die invocations, a pattern he repeated every turn. All the Vamps had Summon Ghouls!!! At least that told me none of them could fight for toffee. I sent my Harpies to marchblock and concentrated my magic on killing the Wraiths and my firepower on one unit of Ghouls, although thanks to the terrain one of my xbow units couldn't engage his line. I'd smoked out all his scrolls in turn one, blasted 8 wounds off the Wraiths in turn two, so he was eager to get the Wraiths engaged, too eager and he recklessly engaged the unit with my unkillable master. My opponent wasn't happy when he realised what he was facing, and Mr Choppy made short work of the Wraiths. I sent out the Hyrda and Assasin to chomp through one unit of Ghouls and fired everything I had into another. Finally overpowering the raising. We only managed 4 turns, but I was comfortably ahead. I'd been concerned that my shooting could never quite finish a Ghoul unit off on it's own (Turn 1 I reduced one to 3 models, then turn 2 I reduced the same unit to 2), but in retrospect his army wasn't getting any larger (after turn 1) and once the Wraiths were gone I could concentrate magic and shooting at the same target. With 2 more turns I've no doubt I'd have finished off two more Ghoul units.
I finished 7th overall.
Mike finished a respectable 21st, but I'll leave him to tell you all about his games.
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Post by John on Sept 7, 2009 12:38:55 GMT
Nice result Mark, you certainly weren't facing any push over lists there.
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Post by Mark Wightman on Sept 7, 2009 15:19:43 GMT
Nice result Mark, you certainly weren't facing any push over lists there. True, but my list was pure filth too.
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Post by mike on Sept 7, 2009 17:15:44 GMT
I've got to say this was a fantastic event. Had a chance to chat to plenty of local gamers and there were plenty of talk about arranging future inter-club games. The lists there were incredibly hard - even with the restrictions. At the start of the first round I glanced around at the tables nearby, and on five nearest tables I could see 2 Star Dragons, 2 Bloodthirsters, 2 Black Dragons, 2 Anvils, 1 Zombie Dragon, 1 Wyvern. Plus my opponent had a Zombie Dragon. Yep, all good fun -- and I'm already looking forward to the next one There were (I think) six or seven high elf armies and only three of them (including mine) turned up with star dragons, which I found quite surprising at the time. Mike finished a respectable 21st, but I'll leave him to tell you all about his games. 21 st out of 42 that is -- so almost exactly halfway down the table, but at least I ended in the top half Granted not exactly a world beating score, but I can at least claim to have preserved my (and the club's) honour and I promise to to better next time around I'm afraid I don't have time to describe my games right now (it's past 6pm and I have to get organised for tonight's RQ), but I'll post something tomorrow -- no really, I will, honest (if I remember that is)
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