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Post by mike on Apr 17, 2009 15:53:29 GMT
Mark, I really must take issue with you on this
Firstly, nobody has yet come up with a valid reason for not buying a couple of board games. And before you say it, I am not at all convinced by the "they were stolen last time" argument -- it does not mean this will happen again.
Also, it tars us all with the same brush as theif, which I for one find quite insulting.
Secondly, I am of the opinion that board games and RPGs are just as valid, and therefore just as worthy of club funding, as wargaming. The club owns a fair amount of stuff for wargaming (mostly terrain) so it is only logical that it should also buy a few board games.
This is nothing to do with "giving the boardgamers their fair share", it's simply a matter of consistency. Either the club buys gaming equipment or it doesn't. And if it buys equipment, any games and/or systems popular with club members have equally valid claims on that budget.
Finally, as John pointed out, the club currently has some spare cash. Personally, I see no reason why this should not be spent on something the members have asked for and are likely to use. If that means buying a board game or two, that's fine by me.
After all, the club is non-profit organisation and it's money is, in a very real sense, our money. As such, it should be used to provide those things the we, as club members, will use.
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Post by Stephen Mawson on Apr 17, 2009 16:07:14 GMT
I would have thought it was more of a question as to what the clubs membership wants/needs from the club in order to have a pleasant gaming experience.
Generally this looks to have been wargaming terrain, purely as while you can wargame without terrain, it's not really very nice to do so, and terrain is often the thing that many gamers can't provide much of due to cash/space constraints.
From my perspective provided there are sufficient members who would wish to make use of club owned board games (or indeed any other items that are not terrain) then that's reason enough to consider it's purchase, provided cost or storage space requirements don't outweight the potential benefits to members.
I'm presuming that all previous terrain purchases that the club has made was on a similar basis. I.e how many members want to use it and how often will it be used, balanced against how much does it cost and the storage requirements. So why should a boardgame purchase, or roleplaying equipment like dungeon tiles, etc be any different. Work out who wants it and whether it's only going to be used once in a blue moon or every other week, and let the committee work out whether that justifies the clubs expenditure.
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Post by mike on Apr 17, 2009 16:10:46 GMT
Well said Stephen, couldn't have put it better myself
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Post by Mark Wightman on Apr 17, 2009 16:21:42 GMT
Mark, I really must take issue with you on this Firstly, nobody has yet come up with a valid reason for not buying a couple of board games. And before you say it, I am not at all convinced by the "they were stolen last time" argument -- it does not mean this will happen again. Also, it tars us all with the same brush as theif, which I for one find quite insulting. Shheeesh, and this sort of debate is another reason we shouldn't be talking about spending the money on boardgames or anything else for that matter. This sort of discussion always ends in confusion and misunderstanding. This sort of thing is how clubs end up getting split up into sections - boardgames only here, RPG here, and wargames there. I don't think anybody wants that, but that's the risk once the "I want my fair share" mentality takes hold. Mike: Go back and read my earlier postings. I went out of my way to say I didn't think any new equipment would be stolen. I'm not accusing anybody of planning that at all. The previous thing with the RPG's was, I hope, a one off. For those of you who weren't about at the time, a member persuaded the committee to buy £200 worth of RPG source books and modules for his popular campaign - then promptly took them home and moved away. He was fully aware he was leaving the area before he made the request for the stuff. I'm not suggesting the same thing is happening here, but this is one of the reasons I don't think the club should buy equipment, although I'll concede we do need to have some terrain onsite, and it is best if this is owned by the club so that anybody can use it. I'm also confused as to why people think we've got huge amounts of cash to spare. It's really only because the club didn't make any large purchases last year and attendance has risen that the bank balance is so healthy. If anything we should be looking to reduce subs nearer to the break-even point, perhaps then people could buy their own boardgames with the extra cash they'd have.
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Post by daveb on Apr 17, 2009 16:58:39 GMT
My few pennies worth on the subject. A lot of truths have been stated here, but I wonder if people are missing what I consider to be a relevant point. The "if it, board game, RPG or terrain tile, belongs to the club why should I look after it?" syndrome. This can be seen with the terrain tiles, chunks missing, holes etc. I know terrain tiles are fragile and get hard use, but would boardgames get an easier life? Would cards or other components get lost? thus rendering them useless? Although not a board or RP gamer I can agree with the points raised by them, but I cannot figure out a solution as I do not think that buying games is a good idea. Surely the money could be better spent in organizing better storage for the gear we already own. (And before anyone asks I would be prepared to assist in constructing new storage.) These are the ramblings of an old man and no offence is intended to anyone. DaveBb
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Post by John on Apr 17, 2009 17:02:15 GMT
If anything we should be looking to reduce subs nearer to the break-even point, perhaps then people could buy their own boardgames with the extra cash they'd have. Exactly right, if the club is spending money purely based on what people want then the same can be achieved by giving the money back and letting members buy it themselves. If the club is buying things that are inappropriate/more difficult for people to provide themselves (something that I think terrain and DnD tiles fit but boardgames don't) then it makes sense for them to be club property.
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Post by dave3 on Apr 17, 2009 17:21:25 GMT
OOps, unforseen can of worms. I should just shut up and let the club run itself I think! Dave, the AGM already authorised replacing the worn out storage, and replacing worn out terrain tiles. We just need to plan a free day to do it, probably a Sunday, and definately after the June weekend. As far as the club buying things is concerned,that is why you elect a committee. There will be concensus taken, of course, but I have no problem with the odd board game. Miniatures have long been out of our club purchasing agenda. Firstly you could never buy an army to satisfy everyone, and secondly, as people have said, someone would have to paint it. Terrain, of course we should buy terrain,and the reason why alot of it is worn, is because alot of it is over 10 years old!! The sci fi stuff was originally for our Junior section back in the early 90's! Stuff getting stolen. Yes I remember the incident, the individual concerned had a beef over paying a year's membership when he only expected to be in the country another 6 months. Then thought taking £200 worth of club property HE asked for was somehow retribution. You get A$%£"*holes like that in life. We had another member who stole a load of trees, and stuff from the then local gaming shop ran by Jim Shephard,then was stupid enough to turn up at club with the loot ! Whatever we do, I am trying to say, stuff is at risk of being nicked, we just have to continue to operate with the best interests of ALL club members but be as vigilant as we can. Part of being in a club, I think, is that there are facilities open to all that the few may not be able to obtain on thier own. Dave
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Post by daiv on Apr 17, 2009 18:31:16 GMT
I would like to put in my two cents on this, as a wargamer and a boardgamer.
From experience I know that storage can be an issue, and we are lucky that we can store as much as we do, and securely too. Rushden Club now also has secure storage, which unfortunately was not always the case. Terrain was stored at home and had to bring it each week, which was inconvenient. When we started with storage, we had lots of terrain destroyed (none of the club was responsible might I add).
It is true that the terrain that makes wargaming a better experience is often cumbersome and not possible to take home on a weekly basis, and also shortens the time gaming time as it takes longer to setup and pack away if you have to take terrain to the cars. In this respect it is a good idea for the club to buy and store terrain.
The good points for buying boardgames is that they do not take all that much space really, and would provide something for someone to do if they have not got something else planned ( I see several people doing nothing some weeks, myself included)
The bad points for buying terrain, and boardgames ( this has been bought up by someone in the past) If the stuff does not belong to you, you may not take as much care as you would if it was your own. I'm not saying this is deliberate, just that this does tend to happen.
There is unfortunately no way to stop things getting lost or from going missing, that is a fact of life, so we should not use this as an excuse, but to keep in mind.
We seem to have people on both sides of the argument, and each point that has been made is valid. Please remember though that the club is there for the entertainment of those that attend, and run by volunteers (btw I thank those who do run the club). We should not let this get outr of hand and affect the way act towards each other,
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Post by John on Apr 18, 2009 21:20:39 GMT
I would suggest Agricola, which is a little similar to Kingsburg in feel, but with more strategic depth and less of a random factor. I picked up Agricola today and just gave it a bash. Seemed like a very enjoyable and deep game the amount of pieces is pretty daunting when you first look!
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Post by steven on Apr 24, 2009 12:27:01 GMT
The club exists to benefit its entire membership as a collective, and its a broad church. I see nothing wrong in buying some boardgames - a good idea! The club should buy things for its membership - it enriches our collective experience and broadens what we play and encourages peopleto try new things. As for things being pinched - well it does happen - board games, minatures, trees - its part of life and we have to be vigilent to protect what is ours. Finally - we all should pay the same, regardless of what games we play as everyone contributes equally and is valued equally.
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