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Post by Damon on Sept 26, 2014 7:49:29 GMT
Since nobody has raised any objection to getting your armour enchanted, I'll take that as a done deal – we are definitely going to do that, which takes Aela out of the ring contest However we still have Kal and Cassanda in the contest – both on much the same logic (front line fighters who need the highest AC they can get) So, that begs the question of what your current AC is Kal is on 18 Cassanda, what's yours? Maybe that can break the tie Well, I for one haven't been convinced yet that spending nearly half the parties GP's is a worthwhile investment! What does the party get out of it? How about we look at the 3 frontline fighters, whoever has the lowest AC gets the ring, the one with the next lowest gets the next ring etc. etc. Drodal, for one, isn't in this business to pay for other people's toys!! He's expecting to take a share of the swag back to his tribe to bling it up for a while!!  D |
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Post by mike on Sept 26, 2014 12:07:32 GMT
Since nobody has raised any objection to getting your armour enchanted, I'll take that as a done deal – we are definitely going to do that, which takes Aela out of the ring contest However we still have Kal and Cassanda in the contest – both on much the same logic (front line fighters who need the highest AC they can get) So, that begs the question of what your current AC is Kal is on 18 Cassanda, what's yours? Maybe that can break the tie Well, I for one haven't been convinced yet that spending nearly half the parties GP's is a worthwhile investment! What does the party get out of it? How about we look at the 3 frontline fighters, whoever has the lowest AC gets the ring, the one with the next lowest gets the next ring etc. etc. Drodal, for one, isn't in this business to pay for other people's toys!! He's expecting to take a share of the swag back to his tribe to bling it up for a while!! D OK Drodal I certainly have no problem with your formula for assigning rings of protection (of which we currently have one). It that makes perfect sense to me. I am pretty sure that currently puts Kal in line for the ring, but I'm 100% certain of that. With regard to your objections to getting Aela's armour enchanted. I do, to some extent, agree with you (after all, I am also in this largely for what I can get out of it). It is for this reason that spending of this nature for a party member will only occur if the other party members agree. That said (just to put my two pennies worth in), I tend to work on the assumption that party money exists for two purposes: 1. Things that are useful to the entire party, such as a bunch of healing or other potions that everybody can use 2. Any "big ticket" items that one person would have difficulty buying on their own It is of course the second (and slightly more contentious) purpose that we are dealing with here. In general, I tend to the view that such spending should be allowed if it is fair and reasonable on a case by case basis. In this specific case, the party clearly gets nothing out of having Aela's armour enchanted. However, Aeyla has so far gained nothing at all from our latest haul. Furthermore, she has formally bowed out of the contest for the ring in return for getting her armour enchanted, so she is trying to play fair with the rest of us. In fact, as things stand, this is likely to be the only thing she will get this time around. Therefore I would say that it is fair and reasonable. That, of course, is just my personal view – if you disagree you are, of course, at liberty to argue your own opinion Kendra Forest-walker |
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Post by neuromancer on Sept 26, 2014 18:38:59 GMT
+! spear and another vote for the +1 ring of protection OK then, the spear goes to Cassanda – seems logical enough The issue of the ring, however, is getting more complex by the minute If we can do the +1 armor enchantment, I'm happy to drop out of the +1 ring of protection race  Since nobody has raised any objection to getting your armour enchanted, I'll take that as a done deal – we are definitely going to do that, which takes Aela out of the ring contest However we still have Kal and Cassanda in the contest – both on much the same logic (front line fighters who need the highest AC they can get) So, that begs the question of what your current AC is Kal is on 18 Cassanda, what's yours? Maybe that can break the tie with shield fighting one handed 21 sans shield 18 |
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Post by chris on Sept 27, 2014 8:11:15 GMT
Hello all
I'm a bit confused as to whether we're having a tongue in cheek in character discussion here or an out of character disagreement! Here's my thoughts which are hopefully helpful.
Out of character:
- I don't think comparing ac is the fair way to do this as everyone has had the same character gen options and chosen different things which results in different acs.
- Aela is a good example for this. I have chosen to sacrifice ac (by not using a shield) for hitting very hard with a 2 handed weapon. I have compensated as best as I can by increasing hit points as far as possible and am looking to boost ac in cheap effective ways. Her current ac is 18 by the way.
- Fairer is to look at the value or how many significant bits of treasure people have picked up. For me this is my +1 greatsword (buy value at about 2000gp) and my cloak (buy value 2800gp).
- remember that most stuff sells at half these prices so it is worth using things we find if they are useful
- no one has any personal income in our current system so there is no way of saving up for essentials (or indeed anything) by oneself
- ac is essential for front line characters. Having front line characters on their feet absorbing attacks, providing flanking opportunities and laying down damage benefits the whole party. Doing this by prevention (ac) rather than cure ( healing) is perhaps wise! Of course treasure division should still be fair!
-A ring of protection +1 is to my mind an expensive icing on the cake option ( buy price 2000gp). It is expensive because it's bonus is a deflection bonus which stacks with armor and shield bonuses. Other cheaper options should also be considered by front line characters. As we have found one however we should certainly use it rather than sell it.
- Buy price of +1 armor is 1000gp. A +1 shield is the same price. I would suggest we should be considering these as good basic purchases for all front line characters who can and want to use them and indeed for non front line characters as soon as we can afford them.
-Another option to boost ac for people would be the spell shield of faith which can be chosen or used by oracles and inquisitors. A wand of this or potions or a potential choice for spell learning are all options. Spell choice is definitely a key part of the fun of being a spell caster so this is of course just a suggestion!
- we should buy as much kit as we can afford whilst we are in a city
- we have more potential cash than listed. +1 bracers of armour have a buy price of 1000 gp each. The gloves have a buy price of 2200gp. These might be items we should sell if no one wants them or if they don't add much to the party. (That's 2 sets of +1 armor there already).
In summary I think we should decide treasure allocation (whether it is cash or found items) by comparing the buy value of stuff people already have and I also think we are reaching a point where basic +1 armor is becoming standard kit. If current allocation means Aela is not next in line for stuff then that's fine by me. If she is, then +1 breastplate is by far the best thing for her to next acquire to do her job.
Hope that helps
Chris
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Post by mike on Sept 27, 2014 16:31:25 GMT
Well said Chris, and very eloquently put
That's kind of what I trying to get at with the fair and reasonable suggestion for allocating party funds – although I was trying to avoid putting a GP value on all the goodies each of us has had (that way lies far too many potential arguments)
So, here's my suggestion (both in and out of character):
Kendra has a couple of wands, a brooch of shielding, a set of bracers and a masterwork weapon (she might also claim the two masterwork daggers if nobody else wants them) – a pretty good haul so she won't mind if she doesn't get much out of the next batch of goodies
Thallos has a +1 bow, a magic quiver, a headband of archery and a bunch of magic arrows – also a pretty good haul but logical since it fits the way he prefers to fight
Drodal has a belt of tumbling – also makes sense as he seems to do a lot of this
Cassanda has a +1 long spear – this is basically his weapon of choice and nobody else appear to want it
That, so far, leaves both Kal and Aela with nothing this time around
Both are essentially front-line fighters for whom AC is important
We still have one ring of protection to allocate
Aela has suggested that she is happy to pass on the ring in return for having her armour enchanted – so, how about?
Kal gets the ring of protection
Aela gets her armour enchanted
If we start assigning GP values to all this, clearly some of us have done better than others (Kendra has certainly done well, but I think Thallos has done best of all this time around), but this inequity should sort itself over time. The next haul might have nothing at all useful for either a wizard or an archer. If, over time, the share-outs are clearly becoming too unbalanced we can always use party funds to even things out a bit (by buying something nice and expensive for whoever hasn't done too well).
That leaves a few high value items so far unallocated:
two pairs of bracers of armour – these are of no use to anybody who wears armour (i.e. everybody except Kendra), so we might as well just sell them
apprentice's cheating gloves – although at first sight these appear to be wizard items there seems to be no restriction on who can use these (at least as far as I can tell), so if anybody wants them speak up
slippers of spider climbing – personally I think these are best employed by somebody who likes to get around the back looking for flanking opportunities (Kal or Drodal perhaps)
and a couple of potions (Cat's Grace and Gaseous form)
Anyone want any of this, the time to speak up is now
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Post by neuromancer on Sept 28, 2014 15:47:45 GMT
Well said Chris, and very eloquently put That's kind of what I trying to get at with the fair and reasonable suggestion for allocating party funds – although I was trying to avoid putting a GP value on all the goodies each of us has had (that way lies far too many potential arguments) So, here's my suggestion (both in and out of character): Kendra has a couple of wands, a brooch of shielding, a set of bracers and a masterwork weapon (she might also claim the two masterwork daggers if nobody else wants them) – a pretty good haul so she won't mind if she doesn't get much out of the next batch of goodies Thallos has a +1 bow, a magic quiver, a headband of archery and a bunch of magic arrows – also a pretty good haul but logical since it fits the way he prefers to fight Drodal has a belt of tumbling – also makes sense as he seems to do a lot of this Cassanda has a +1 long spear – this is basically his weapon of choice and nobody else appear to want it That, so far, leaves both Kal and Aela with nothing this time around Both are essentially front-line fighters for whom AC is important We still have one ring of protection to allocate Aela has suggested that she is happy to pass on the ring in return for having her armour enchanted – so, how about? Kal gets the ring of protection Aela gets her armour enchanted If we start assigning GP values to all this, clearly some of us have done better than others (Kendra has certainly done well, but I think Thallos has done best of all this time around), but this inequity should sort itself over time. The next haul might have nothing at all useful for either a wizard or an archer. If, over time, the share-outs are clearly becoming too unbalanced we can always use party funds to even things out a bit (by buying something nice and expensive for whoever hasn't done too well). That leaves a few high value items so far unallocated: two pairs of bracers of armour – these are of no use to anybody who wears armour (i.e. everybody except Kendra), so we might as well just sell them apprentice's cheating gloves – although at first sight these appear to be wizard items there seems to be no restriction on who can use these (at least as far as I can tell), so if anybody wants them speak up slippers of spider climbing – personally I think these are best employed by somebody who likes to get around the back looking for flanking opportunities (Kal or Drodal perhaps) and a couple of potions (Cat's Grace and Gaseous form) Anyone want any of this, the time to speak up is now Seems fair though the idea of poling magic items to by some new +1 armour is interesting it would tend to mean a move to full plate late medieval style for the front line fighters ad you would what mirthral full plate which is 9k stock before any enchantment |
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Post by Damon on Sept 29, 2014 13:22:02 GMT
Hmm, I'd always assumed that "treasure" was up for grabs for all & sundry, while hard cash was pooled & then divvied up to supplement "wages" so characters could buy those goodies they were after....
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Post by Stephen Mawson on Sept 29, 2014 13:40:19 GMT
It can vary from group to group, but given the high cost of buying specific magic items most groups I've played in have tended to pool all money gained, and then buy things collectively.
As the GM i'm not to bothered what the PC's do with their loot, I do try and find ways to get useful, or interesting items into the hands of the PC's who I think want/need them. But mostly the magic stuff my NPC's carry is usually the stuff that makes sense for those characters to have. Hence the high proportion of spell caster treasure lately as mostly you've been dealing with a cult of deranged spell casters.
I've been handing out quite of lot of weapons recently, so now that most people have something in that line I may look to focus more on the more miscelaneous stuff, amulets, belts, boots, etc for a while.
I've asked before, but I'm quite happy for people to post updated Magic Item want lists to give me some idea of what people would like. Currently I've been trying to pick things that multiple people in the party might find useful, to keep the number of items that immediately get sold down to a minimum.
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Post by Damon on Oct 5, 2014 17:18:36 GMT
Sorry Chris - didn't actually say in my last post, I've got no objections to your plan I have my beady eye on a masterwork small great club (rounders bat) in the local armoury.....
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Post by mike on Oct 5, 2014 18:49:37 GMT
Sorry Chris - didn't actually say in my last post, I've got no objections to your plan I have my beady eye on a masterwork small great club (rounders bat) in the local armoury..... Thanks for that Damon – that removes the last (and indeed only) objection So, currently the plan is: Kendra – wand of sleep (42 charges), wand of magic missiles (caster level 5, 15 charges), bracers of armour +2, broach of shielding, masterwork light crossbow, 2 masterwork daggers Thallos – +1 short bow, efficient quiver, headband of archery, 15 frost arrows, 15 flame arrows, 9 shock arrows Drodal – belt of tumbling Cassanda – +1 long spear Kal – +1 ring of protection Aela – party funds pays to get her armour enchanted That leaves – up for grabs: apprentice's cheating gloves – Kendra would like these if nobody else wants them slippers of spider climbing potion of cat's grace potion of gaseous form And finally – left over for sale: 2 x braces of armour +1 – value 1,000gp each normal light crossbow – value 35gp normal hand axe – value 6gp black pearl – value 600gp golden bracelet in the shape of a unicorn – value 110gp total value 1,751gp, which will net us 875.5gp plus the 2,004.8gp we currently have is 2,880.3gp less the 1,000gp to enchant Aela's armour is 1,880.3gp Out of which I am happy to make any potions for party use we feel we might need before heading out into the wilderness (time permitting, of course) – I would suggest a couple of healing potions each for starters |
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Post by Stephen Mawson on Oct 5, 2014 19:29:00 GMT
I think you've worked the sale prices out slightly wrong.
The two +1 bracers will sell for 1,000 GP between them, the other mundane stuff for 20.5 GP. Treasure items sells at full value, so 710 GP. That should come to 1,730.5 GP's. Plus whatever party funds you have currently.
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Post by mike on Oct 5, 2014 21:55:32 GMT
I think you've worked the sale prices out slightly wrong. The two +1 bracers will sell for 1,000 GP between them, the other mundane stuff for 20.5 GP. Treasure items sells at full value, so 710 GP. That should come to 1,730.5 GP's. Plus whatever party funds you have currently. Yep, you're right – sorry guys, not at all sure how I made such a basic mistake Correct figures: 2 x braces of armour +1 – value 1,000gp each – total value 2,000gp light crossbow – value 35gp hand axe – value 6gp total 2,041gp – nets us 1,020.5gp black pearl – value 600gp golden bracelet in the shape of a unicorn – value 110gp total 710gp grand total 1,730.5gp (exactly what Stephen made it) plus the 2,004.8gp we currently have makes 3,735.3gp less the 1,000gp to enchant Aela's armour leaves 2,735.3gp Since we're town and likely to be heading back out into the wilderness in the near future, I suggest we go on a spending spree (after all, money's only useful for the toys it can buy us). Any suggestions as to what we might want? |
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Post by Damon on Oct 6, 2014 15:02:28 GMT
Rounders Bat!!
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Post by Stephen Mawson on Oct 6, 2014 15:31:27 GMT
It's probably worth reminding people that D&D is back on tonight.
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Post by mike on Oct 6, 2014 16:28:30 GMT
Same answer as for Aela's armour – I personally have no issue with that – What does the rest of the party think |
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