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Post by Matt on May 11, 2009 9:31:12 GMT
Mark, Thought I'd continue the thread here rather than hijack the SoTR thread. You're right purely based on troops 1500 points is alot. However you soon find that when you add in commands and hero's 1500 points disappears very quickly. In 1500 points I have 3 hero's and only two units with commands, although my Haradrim archers have a Hasharin to give them a bit of pep in combat. My biggest problem at the moment is that the rare units generally speaking are metal and WotR requires large numbers. I'd love some watchers of Karna but even for a two company formation I'm looking at £47.10! I'd love to field some Black Numenoreans too but for 4 companies its a staggering £86.35!! Good job the Easterlings are in my opinion at least some of the nicest models in the range  |
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Post by Mark Wightman on May 11, 2009 10:51:06 GMT
Yep, prices for the "rare" stuff are insane. I suspect GW won't be doing anything about it either. I just can't see them investing money in plastic moulds for WotR stuff they've already done in metal. And I have 1,500 - 2,000 pts of dwarves. Picked up some Vendel dwarf huscarls at Campaign to masquerade as Kazhad guard or Murin's guard. Martyn Fiendishly clever. |
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Post by sapper on May 11, 2009 10:54:48 GMT
The GW prices are the reason I got those Vendel dwarves at the weekend. They retail for £1 a figure and will serve as khazad or Murin's guard - at a fraction of the cost.
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Post by sapper on Jun 9, 2009 11:20:06 GMT
Matt and I played a 1,500 pt game of War of the Ring last week; dwarves versus Fallen Realms.
Generally enjoyable, but it did throw up some anomalies with the rules. The rules for terror, for instance, are meaningless without tweaking. The rules around heroic actions are also unclear. The rules seem to say that a hero may only make one heroic action per phase, but this meant that Matt's hero, Sulladan the Serpent Lord, who has tocall a heroic duel can't use his complementary power to temporarily increase his fight value to 10. Apparently the battle report in this month's White Dwarf has heroes making more than one heroic action - which makes sense in the context of the game, but does seem to contradict the rules.
Gimli and Dain for the dwarves went through orcs like a hot knife through butter the previous week, but were finding the human Easterlings harder going. These combats were just a side show, though, when Matt's mumak lumbered into action and splatted every dwarf in sight ! Mumak 1 - dwarves nil !! Mmmm, how to kill that oliphaunt ?
Martyn
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Post by Matt on Jun 9, 2009 12:16:38 GMT
On the note of Terror they in the said same WD article there was an instance the Balrog (large firey beast from the nether depths of hell) was scare of an elf lord!
Not the best rules but thems the breaks.
WotR still proved to be a very enjoyable game and when I've scraped all of the dwarf entrails out of my Mumaks toes I'll be looking forward to the next encounter.
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Post by Mark Wightman on Jun 9, 2009 12:42:01 GMT
On the note of Terror they in the said same WD article there was an instance the Balrog (large firey beast from the nether depths of hell) was scare of an elf lord! Not the best rules but thems the breaks. Seems wrong I know, but if a Balrog is going to be scared of something it should be an elf-lord. The only other one I can remember being killed in any of the Tolkien books is the one killed by Glorfindel I. Who used the Gandalf method and tumbled off a very large cliff with it. I suspect you will see this sort of thing cropping up all the time, especially once the good guys realise they can take a cheap Fate/Fortune thingy that forces a terror test to be failed. Balrogs and Dragons will be running/flying for their lives :-) |
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Post by sapper on Jun 9, 2009 15:51:38 GMT
Mmmm ... and mumakil trampling their own forces in abject terror... may be a way to go... except terrorees don't actually turn tail and run, they just become less aggressive and fighty.
Matt is just a bit put out because Dain Ironfoot causes terror and his own terror causing abominations had to take a terror test on seeing Danny Devito with a beard and axe coming at them!
But of course, its the hero's reputation which causes the terror, not necessarily their physical aspect.
According to the rules (this is why they are meaningless in this context) the effects of a failed terror test (fight attributre reduced to zero) only last to the end of the phase ! If that is taken literally, the terror is caused in the charge phase and has dissipated by the fight phase - hence being an entirely irrelevant aspect of the rules. We're convinced the rule should be that effects of terror last until the end of the turn - and that's how we played it. Then, Sulladan has an heroic action which increases his fight to 10 for the expenditure of 1 point of might. If he has failed a terror test and his fight is at zero until the end of the TURN, can he then trump this by expending his point of might to raise his fight to 10 ? I say no, but I would, wouldn't I ?
Martyn
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Post by John on Jun 9, 2009 16:40:37 GMT
Then, Sulladan has an heroic action which increases his fight to 10 for the expenditure of 1 point of might. If he has failed a terror test and his fight is at zero until the end of the TURN, can he then trump this by expending his point of might to raise his fight to 10 ? I say no, but I would, wouldn't I ? Martyn It would depend on the exact wording of the abilities, which sadly I can't check or just as likely be impossible to come up with a 'correct' answer from the rules. In Warhammer, whenever two rules directly contradict (one model has rule saying only hit on rolls of 6s, other has auto-hit weapon) they say to roll a D6 each turn to see which one works. |
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Post by Matt on Jun 10, 2009 7:45:30 GMT
Unfortunately the exacting wording of the abilities is the problem ;D
If you followed the exact wording terror would be meaningless and Sulladan would be a self destructive Might drain.
I'm dropping him for the next match and drafting in another Wraith.
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Post by John on Jun 10, 2009 9:50:32 GMT
Having played a couple of games with a GW manager with quite a bit of WotR experience we had Terror working in combat and the limitation on actions never came up, I was going by his knowledge of the rules but I think it is likely they are both errors.
Regarding wording, I was only referring to the situation where two rules directly oppose (in this case fight value modifications).
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Post by Mark Wightman on Jun 10, 2009 10:45:51 GMT
Jervis has apparently said there will be a FAQ out shortly, Mat and Alessio will be working on it. Shortly could be a very long time though.
There's quite a few other issues that have been passed on them. Off the top of my head.
Can somebody with +2 to hit ever miss (i.e. is a '1' always a miss)?
How many extra dice does Glorfindel get when he charges?
Epic Heroes - do any of these abilities have any effect: Pathfinder, Terror, Spirit Grasp, Spirit Walk, *Bane?
A Troll runs into the front of a formation of 4 infantry companies arranged 2x2 and kills 8. How many attacks does it take in return? 8+Support because the casualties came from a company in the back, or 0 + Support?
That last one isn't played consistently from one GW store to another.
There's one about casualties too. If you have a 2 company formation, and the enemy are only in contact with the non-command stand. Do casualties come off the command stand as it is the one that isn't in contact? That's what the rules say, but it's madness. Monsters will kill the commanders if they aren't in contact, but won't kill them if they are - seems a bit wrong to me, but I can see what they are trying to achieve.
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Post by Matt on Jun 10, 2009 12:35:54 GMT
One of my mates is a play tester so I'll ask him what he thinks on Sulladan.
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