KELMARSH 09

[carl1]

Dear All; i contacted EH to offer our club to put on games and after several weeks of discussions with the chief EH organiser, and a bit of persuasion they kindly accepted us and seemd pleased with what we did. Dave came as a Phoenix member and during / after the event, i cant remember which he asked if you guys could do a table or two next year which i didn't think would be a problem, and still dont. The membership fee issue was simply so that you came in line with our own people who we have told they will only be able to attend if they are fully paid up members, and so as not alienate our own members i posted the same onto this posting for Bedford.

the fact that as one of your fellows pointed out he will save the six quid by buying at osbornes more than outways this fee. couple with the fact that hopefully everyone will get a free family pass this again is a great investment as each adult ticket this year was 17.50 and the free pass allows 2 adults and up to 3 children in at no cost.

i offered Bedford a place and at no time said you have to masquerade as Phoenix, it was because of the friendships between the two clubs and the fact that we have a crossover of several members now.

however, i would personally not be happy if my offer was now rejected because you were thinking of contacting EH direct to attend in your own right so to speak. i would not do this to Bedford if the boot was on the other foot. if you invited us, we would do as you are doing and consider it and gauge interest from our members, but i would not step on another clubs toes and contact the organisers direct.

it took a lot of work on my part to get this 'gig' and i apologise if some of the posters above feel agrieved about the six pound issue it was never meant to be anything but a way of ensuring you get a phoenix membership card and can actually gain entrance on the day(s) themselves.

if you guys feel that you would rather not now come, that is fine and i would fully respect your decision, and it will certainly on my part not alter my relationship with your club or any of its members. i enjoy attending Bedford (on the few days i can actually persuade my other half a second nights gaming in a week is essential) and would still like to come along in the future.

as for the scenario you put on i think it does not have to based on british history as some of the re-enactment groups were from all priods of history and various wars which did not involve any british interference so to speak, so kadesh would still be a goer. we put on a roman v greek battle this year, which dave was involved in and EH were ok with that.

anyway guys, please have a think and let me know what you want to do, as you are (as far as i'm concerned anyway) still more than welcome if you want to come with us.

[dave3]

I get a feling that some people are geting a few hackles up unnecessarily over this! it is meant to be fun! if it is too much bother best to leave alone before the afore mentioned tears!
Dave

[carl1]

Dave; sorry if this has caused some problems mate, it was never my intention i just wanted it to be fair for our guys who pay membership and as Mark said in an earlier post he would expect people to be a Bedford member to get a ticket to one of your outings.

As for Marks piece about expecting free entry into the event i fully agree to some degree and in fact you do (as do your families, if they want to), but they said to get into the event we dont get given tickets we have to show our club cards and as our members are expected to be a fully paid up member to come along i didn't think it fair that they pay and anyone else doesn't.

[dave3]

I think that there may be some confusion somewhere in the perceptions behind this . Mark is coming from the point, I think, that when we, as a club, attend events such as Salute, Colours, Campaign etc. We attend as a club participating in the event, and are therefore allowed some free tickets ,in order that we may have a controlled number of our members attend with the perpouse of running the display game. As the club who is running the display put all the effort to create it, and so need the tickets to have the crew to run it, it is obvious that THAT club should have access to those tickets. The question arises therefore, is Kelmarsh in the same mantle as Salute, or Colours, the ORGANISER of the show, or is it,(as I had assumed) that Rushden had been allowed special, and exclusive, dispensation, by EH, to run the wargame side of the show, to the exclusion of other clubs? and therefore has the only "free tickets" in the form of your mem cards.
If this is not the case and the show is open to any club, would it be a bad thing to showcase our hobby to such a large audience?And this would not deminish Rushdens, and your personal achievement in placing our hobby's preverbial foot in the door.
To be realistic,at any rate, I doubt you would get a rush of people joining the Phoenix club, just to go to Kelmarsh! but you might get people joining Phoenix AT Kelmarsh.

Dave

[John]

Excellently put Carl, I think your position is a very reasonable one and I can't see anything you said that seems remotely unreasonable so I personally feel you have no reason to apologise for anything.

[carl1]

Thanks John, much appreciated. As for Dave's email we dont get 'tickets' we just have to show our mem cards, and just because your guys are in effect 'joining' phoenix there is no pressure on any of you guys attending our place on a regular basis it was just to get the mem card. i have spoken to Stephen Mawson tonight and the idea we came up with was to 'give' you a Phoenix membership card for the weekend, but once the event was over you would then give it back.

the downside to this is that your guys could not get discount at osbournes and would not be elidgeable for a free family pass.

a mixture of the two ideas could also be sorted if some were willing to join and some were not. either way is fine with us and is workable i beilieve.

[mike]

Firstly, I think I must share at least some of the blame for this argument, for which I offer my unreserved apologies. When I first raised the question (in response to Marks' comment) I never intended, or even expected, that it would stir up such a hornets nest.

Further, I never intended to suggest that the position of Rusden Phoenix in general, or that of Carl in particular, were in any way unreasonable, and I apologise if that impression was given.

Strictly personally, the issue of free entry really doesn't matter much to me since, as I'm sure most of you know by now, I'm a fully paid up member of both clubs, so I need only flash whichever membership card will get me in.

That having been said, I still consder myself a Gladiators member first and foremost (no disrespect to the Rushden people, whom I have always found to be both friendly and sportsmanlike in all things, but Bedford is my local club), so I tend to side with the Bedford people on this.

The general feeling here seems to be that if we go to Kelmarsh, we should go as ourselves, and I broadly agree with this veiw. However, I see no particular issue with Gladiators being invited as a guest of Rushden Phoenix, as long as it is clear on the day that we are seperate clubs.

My fear is that, unless this issue is fully clarified ahead of time, it might appear, allbeit unintentionally, that we are sneaking in under Rushens' invitation, and that could well sour Carls' hard-earned relationship with English Heritage. I for one would feel extremely uncomfortable if our involvement were to lead to this.

To put it simply - in my view if Bedford goes to Kelmarsh, we go as Bedford Gladiators, and we do so in a manner that is completely transparent and above board.

[dave3]

This all looks to be in the bad area I didn't want it to be in...lets just drop it and forget about the whole thing.
Carl if you read my post I said "free tickets", in the form of mem cards (membership cards).
This is going to far down the wrong road, and leading to bad feeling, we will just leave it.
Dave

[carl1]

Sorry Dave must have misread that bit. Totally up to you guys. Obviously if you join Phoenix again next year then i hope to see you at Kelmarsh and that also goes for Mike who couldn't attend this year. Anyone else is as i said previously more than welcome to join up and come along.

i dont have any bad feelings regarding this as i fully respect your clubs decision whichever way it came down so to speak. hope to see you all soon at your place, or maybe some of you would like to pop along to us for a few friendly games one night. if so, please chat with steve and sort out a day.

[dave3]

OK mate!

[wstevens]

Can I say Dave that your professional (if I can say that) approach on the Ancients table at Kelmarsh was not only a tribute to yourself but also to your club. Dare I say it also had a rubbed on positive effect with Phoenix. I would like on behalf of Phoenix to say a belated thank you (sorry a new member here). Your fantastic guidance and the way you made all participants feel so welcome gained our particular table much attention the next day. It was sad that you couldn't be there on the Sunday but still a big thumbs up and I hope that you or any of the Gladiators could demonstrate the same level of enthusiasm (undoubtedly)as you did - for next year. Cheers!

[dave3]

Thanks for those kind words, Warren. Our club has had years of experience on the cuircit, Salute, Colours, Roll call, etc etc, and that is what you do! involve the public! Nothing worse than trying to look at a game over someones shoulder, who then looks up at you begrudgingly! it isn't a club nite, you are demonstrating the hobby!
Dave

[wstevens]

You are so right ;D