40k games

[adjudicator]

what are the statistics of deadnoughts, such as furioso, Bjorn, and the like? I know Carnifex have a huge weakness against my army, and have never stood up to them, but I've never really played against someone who utilises Drdnoughts, and such. Do they have armour, or toughness? 3 wounds like wraithlord? I honestly don't know them.
I like the take on the inclusion onF+S+R=33 making it a tank type, as walkers have only a 30. I don't know of others, but I'm sure there are plenty of armoured vehicles with FSR<33

Micheal, I think the walker types on Forgeworld you might be talking about are the wasps, with extra combat abilities and jump-packs, they are nice. Love the lynx, it is gorgeous! The hornet with the capability of fielding 2 pulse lasers, giving it 4 shots Str 8 AP 2 is lovely. Add that to speed an manouverability we have a decent unit. A little worried of the squadron rule meaning they're easily destroyed on a 4+ on the damage chart.

I will happily adhere to L's rules, given that walkers are not classed as 33 or more armour FSR. Leaves a great chesire smile on my 90-shots a turn Eldar face ^^
July's game could see the Eldar with some serious firepower, what with the possibilty of a lynx, and a scorpion on the table. That would prob munch the 25% each of the super heavies, and the 25% remaining for normal tanks of FSR>33 would go on cloudstrike, or a couple of wraithlord.
These targets are a far cry from the wall of tanks i went up against though. Falcons have rear armour 10, which bolters can take, and wraithlord are easy pickings with B's jetpack blood angels armed with lightning claws. Re-rolling millions of dice on the charge, Str 5 hits with his furious charge.... I've never finished a game with a wraithlord still on the table. Used to have 4, but 2 have gone missing. As is the case when you move stuff around. If L does not wish to play, it would be great to have her as umpire, she is very good at remembering ridiculous rules, and I remember one story where she spent an entire game correcting a GWS staff, as she knew the rules better than he.
I'll make an attempt at putting together a campaign paper, which I will have ready on my dongle for anyone that wants a copy printed, so they can read up before the game. I'll plan for 2v2 Eldar vs. marine, which would work well for Eldar campaign, unless we can find 2 imperial players or more, so we can work on the imperial campaign.
I'm liking it already! Thankyou L for the clarification of points allocation. I believe it works very well. Are other players alright with the allowance? upto 25% on superheavies, a further 25% on heavy allocation with FSR armour more than 33, etc?
Will work saturday on a preliminary report, hopefully have an idea ready for people soon.

[Elle]

Dread... Ws4 Bs4 St6 (10 with combat fist) F:12 S:12 R10 In4 At2
Furioso are Ws6 with 13 Front armour.. Ironclad are 13 Front & Side
Should also remind that Walker types use Front armour in melee, not Rear armour like normal vehicles.

The 34+ rule's only downside is Drop Pods calculate at 36 *laughs* As they don't have a true front.
<33 vehicles:
Marines - Rhino's, Razorbacks, Land Speeders, Whirlwind
Guard - Chimera, Basilisk, Hydra, Manticore, Sentinel Walker
Eldar - Vypers, War Walker, Wasp Walker, Hornet

[adjudicator]

Ah cool, so I can have walkers outside of the FSR>33 same with some decent vehicles, but drednoughts, wraithlords etc fall within the FSR>33 catagory. I'm happy.

[anonymice]

its ok me and elle are also away for june 12th as its our LARP game (on a side note is there a place for larp on this forum?)

july is good for me, ill try and get together my force... i would like to have adjudicator on my side as hes a friend and i would like to play you (michaelanstead) with another 10k a side (so 5k each player) ... but i must admit i will be very tempted if mike and adjudicator gets together with eldar and takes on me and another imperial that would be super.
I have no super heavys just normal troops, i use the apoc company rules for my blood angels formation.
and in my company i do not have my stormraven, its why i am making a formation with them in... although those rules are not out yet and i have a feeling they wont be for a while but as always i am trying to antisipate them.

Adju.. i havent yet had my vanguard (aka the lightning claw unit) in a apoc game that i can remember)

im still worried that im just about to start paying out to have my army build up and i wont be able to use it in this apoc thing where planning.. ill speak to L off line and see

[adjudicator]

This sunday 8th, I can happily muster a 5k force. Could easily go higher, but I suggest we start small (laughs at B's reaction when I call 5k small ^^), and see where it goes.
Formations are great, and I suggest try to keep to them, but I don't mind forces having non-apoc units in (I'll have yriel, for instance, I love that guy!)
I'm gonna do that thing where ya lie still and close your eyes. I feel it's a waste of time, but I get ulcers if I dont do it at least once every 3 days! Coffee! You can sleep when youre dead!

[michaelanstead]

About the hornet, I actually meant the hornet feels like an upgraded standard walker from the codex. If you ignore what they look like and look at the rules alone.

Just out of curiosity; adjuducator what Craftworld do you field? I would like to play a large game with another Eldar player, but we would have to sort out who gets to field Eldrad. I think that if we are different craftworlds we can play 2 avatars, this would be in keeping the the game and the history.

If we can play on the same side, your hornets plus my lynx would be a good combination :-D

[adjudicator]

I'm ulthwé too unfortunately. I field the ulthwé seer council, and hopefully not too far future, the Ulthwé attack force:
(Storm guardians get +1 ws, on top of the +1 ws/ I from enhance, for a scary weapon skill of 5, Initiative 5, 3 attacks on charge from something that costs 8 points?)

If you would like to try out something Eldar vs. Eldar, I have the grand court of the young prince, which I cant remember which craft world it is, but it's not Ulthwé, and includes a farseer and avatar. I'd sorely miss my seer council, (double range of psychic powers on successful psychic roll- doom at 48") But I can live with a smaller force. I think that by itself is between 1600-2000 points. Pure infantry apoc unit.

No idea when we could play such a game though, we'll have to see if we can squeeze it in to a sunday game, eh? Or a monday if we just have a quick bash- I'd be worried about pitting GCYP against tanks though, the unit is not brilliant against tanks. Hawks might be ok, but they'd be sitting pretty for a turn, and I'm sure if they're successful, you wouldnt allow them to continue their attacks!!

[michaelanstead]

I meant to say, allied with an Eldar player. Not against :-D

I am up for any game almost anywhere and anytime. I am sure we could work out some sort of agreement if we were to build a 10k allied list for a sunday game. It is not just Eldrad we have to think about but the Pheonix lords and Yriel (not sure that is spelt correctly) as we would only be able to field one of each of them in an allied force.

Unless I missed it has anyone mentioned Spearheads? Would they be permitted in this game that is hopefully taking shape. I only say because a favourite of mine is the Skystorm, imagine fire dragons coming out and shooting then assaulting after their wave serpent has moved 36 inches and fired itself. Then picture this on 3 different targets, all those melta attacks almost anywhere on the table. Kind of evil heehee :-D

Would spearheads be part of the Super Heavy limit? I would still suggest no more than 1 of each type though.

[Elle]

The rules mentioned before are for Apocalypse use I think, for normal games the Force Organisation chart usually does the job at keeping things sensible and fun.

None of us have ever really used Spearhead (I'd never really thought it was compatable with Apocalypse), I always thought it was a seperate expansion to give normal games something like Formations, especially as Spearhead uses its own mission set and the Super-Heavy Spearhead purposes downgrades whichever Super-Heavy you use.
If its compatable I'd imagine that'd still be something you should agree with your opponent. As mentioned before I'm on a break from playing, so my thoughts are secondary to those who are.

[steven]

You lot should write a book - this is fascinating!

[adjudicator]

I'm in the proccess of writing a book, hahahah!!!! A lot of it is borrowed, becuase when you mess with core rules, people stop taking things for granted. With what Elle has said, I've no idea about spearhead, never used them and have never used those rules. I honestly have not got a clue about spearhead, the other chaps have never wanted, nor allowed spearhead, so ive never researched in to them. No idea why you would assault fire dragons. They're crap in melee. 2 attacks on charge with Str 3? Dire evengers are better with Defend special ability, but being able to disembark and fire sounds half decent, not sure about moving 36" and then disembarking, something I don't know about either. I'm not a seasoned fighter, I'm afraid, I'd have to talk it over with some other people as to those rules, plus spear-head. I thought spear head was a different game style too, like apoc is to normal.

As far as any game, any time anywhere, I'm hoping to team up with another bod, who plays blood angels; Jason. We might attempt to get a game or two in, but i rarely see him. If we can get a game going, then you'd be welcome to join if you're happy carting your 40k about.
Yes, Yriel is spelt correctly, I own Yriel, Maugan Ra, Eldrad, Karandras, and Steve (A second, carbon copy of Karandras, who unlike his brother, doesnt like the lime-light). If we were to occupy the same table, we would discuss before hand who has the best tactics, and capabilities. For instance, my Eldrad seer council also includes 5 other farseer and as many as 12 warlocks. Giving the farseer double range, and annoyingly to the enemy player, as well as rolling 3 dice and ignoring highest for psychic tests, I get to re-roll. In an FAQ, Embolden also effects the psychic test. If I fail both die rolls (has never happened since I've used that ability), I get the farseers psychic hood of a 3+ save. And re-roll that because of fortune.
Yeah. My council is indestructible. If you don't count Elle's new anti-everything weapon. But she no longer plays, so I'm all smiles. And no, she is NOT allowed to say what it is, so others can use it, or I'll steal all of her socks. I did it to Ben lawley a few years back, and I'll do it again!
Doom on a big infantry unit, guide on dire avengers for blade storm (over 90 shots from 30 guys, re-rolled to-hit and wound?) Followed by charging banshee's all wth power weapons, and they re-roll wounding becuase of the "doom" spell? Add fortune to boosting singing spears, getting to re-roll 3+ invulnerable cover saves, and we have a winner. So yes, I like using Eldrad in my army. If you have better, than by all means, post your idea. With 5 farseer, 2 powers each, Eldard with three, all of them always succeding psychic rolls, doubled range (all apart from mind war, saved for carnifex and other low leadership based 'tough guys', do not require line of sight), makes 13 psychic uses per turn. They all have 4+ invulnerabel saves, bar eldrad with a 3+, all of them re-rolling failed saves, and can allocate warlocks to take a dive for them, instead of killing a farseer. Honestly, I've never taken more than 3 losses, and with 15 ppl in the squad, i can allocate warlocks.
Ha!
Yriel, Maugan, Karandras and Steve, I honestly dont mind who plays them, as long as theyre played well. But Eldrad plays a very important role for me.

[dave3]

I know nothing of which you speak...tis gobbledigook!...
However if you want a game of 40K I could bring 1000..or 1500...assuming no one fancies Descent (pity as I fancied a dungeon crawl!)
pick the name of your doom...Nid, IG, BA, CM,Ork
well..I say doom...dramatic effect really ..as usualy I lose!

[michaelanstead]

That sounds like a plan with eldrad. I normaly play him with a unit of wraithguard ( and spiritseer/spear/conceal), turning him into toughness 6 with extra wounds. When they get up close I can guide the wraithguard and they will kill anything shooting.

Assaulting fire dragons does sound silly but with the spearhead in question I could plonk 3 squads of fire dragons in next to almost any armour on the table, shoot with melta and then assault with melta (only if this is neccessary). At the moment I use this spearhead with banshees in one, coming out and charging anywhere on the table and 2 units of fire dragons 10 in a serpent and 5 (with fuegan) in a firestorm. Put this lot together to do in the super heavy I am playing on the 8th. Hopefully it will work.

I dont play Yriel and rarely play Maugan Ra, But I do use karandras on occasion. Plus of course Fuegan. I am putting all the pheonix lords (except Jain Zar) on the table on the 8th. There are enough of them to share if we do end up on the same side.

[adjudicator]

Ok, if you don't mind me having Eldrad and Yriel, I'm happy if you want to field the phoenix lords. There is an apoc unit that has them plus avatar, for the all singing all dancing squad of doom. I think they might all have fleet of foot (not sure about avatar), but most certainly the ultimate combat squad. Watch out for AP 2 weapons, without invulnerable saves, or eternal warrior, only takes a Str 8 to 1-shot them. Pulse lasers get 2 shots. I've an avatar that I wont be using if you want to borrow for the unit.

Erm. I don't remember conceal giving higher toughness or wounds. To my knowledge, it only grants a cover save of 5+. Which is great for a squad of defender guardians, but Eldrad gets a 3+ invulnerable anyway. After the holiday, I might consider grabbing spearhead rules, unless you can collate the pages i need, and print them out for quick reference for me?
I have all the decent apoc units for Eldar, something like 15+ of them on paper, of which i own 11 units, soon to be 12. I will be happy to have them printed out for you, f there are any you don't have copies of. A lot of them are between the two big books, but having them printed out for quick reference helps a lot.

As a side note, in much larger games, I may want to use Karandras, as I have an apoc unit that uses him and 30 (maybe more) scorpions. Sick rule of if they finish move into cover, they can be taken off the board and put back on (not deep-strike, just moved), to anywhere else on the board that has cover. And charge afterwards. Oh yes.
This battle I'm happy to stick with Eldrad and Yriel though, 2v2, can say 3k each? Or would people prefer more? I think I remember writing 5k would be comfortable, but I've not had any feedback. Who would we be playing against? I think there was dave3 who said we could choose our doom, or something - My personal favourite is tyranids, I go up against blood angels, necron, dark eldar, sisters and imperial often. Tyranid would be a nice change. Any other players to add to his army?
B - you playing your angels? Would be great for Elizabeth to watch/ umpire, I'm nowhere near as good at the rules as I should be, and although he likes to feel he is, B is not as good at the rules as he should, either. I trust Elizabeth's judgement 100%.
I'll be there early sunday, attepting to set up, with 3-5k each, we'll need more like a 3x5 (15 tile-set) or something. Any ideas? I'll match whatever people want to play ^^

[Elle]

With shooting you use the majority toughness, so if Eldra (or any Farseer) is with Wraithguard all hits on the unit count against Tgh 6 (with fortune that becomes quite hard).
That might be what Michaelanstead means, of course in combat he's treated seperately so drops down to normal toughness.

Another note, all Phoenix Lords have Eternal Warrior.

Yet again I think you are placing too much favour on my head, but oh well *laughs* Spearhead rules aren't purchaseable anymore, they were a White Dwarf release but can be downloaded from the GW site now. The whole 36" disembark rule etc is all Spearhead, tis true I've never been fond of the rules as they seem to take over the game and things become more about the Spearhead than the actual army but I'll be curious to see them used if two players agree to.

I should note I think Dave3 was primarily asking about 40k tonight rather than joining the campaign. I'm afraid to say I think most have plans tonight but I could be wrong.