40k games

[adjudicator]

First post to the board, however, I'm a member of another pro-board, so I'll just get right in to it. Of my circle of 6 40k players, 2 of them cant really make it, and 2 have stopped playing, so I'm hoping to find more players here. (The fifth I doubt would be welcome)
Before the four friends pulled out, we had discussions of larger games, which I thought was perfect for the sunday events, as an all-out apocalypse game, which would take a good year to finish, the details are all sorted, but we just stopped playing. Fairly annoying.
Anyways, I'm experimenting with different tactics with my Eldar army, and am always happy to play either a small skirmish on the monday, or talk about a possible apocalypse game, even go over previous ideas for those who would like a little depth to a game. This monday coming (2nd May), I will be playing space hulk with Elusive (If she still uses the same name), but happy to talk about future games. I will not be able to attend between the 4th to the 18th of June however. I'm on holiday

[michaelanstead]

Hi,

Nice to hear from a fellow Eldar player

I would be up for larger games. I am playing a 10k 1 on 1 game on sunday 8th may.

I am actually interested in trying a campaign. I have also been writing a scenario based on an Eldar defense of a planet, this is loosely based on what I have read in the Apocalypse books.

Michael

[adjudicator]

The idea that we had, my old group, was that Eldrad had found a small moon hidden behind a gas giant, that was capable of supporting life, and was to be used as a stationary web-way gate. This planet would be able to give tactical advantages to craftworld's around the galaxy, but first had to build up it's defenses.
The main section of this meant that whilst the Eldar would have a field advantage of several strategic assets, (I will have my friend Elizabeth remind me of them), which would really help the eldar forces out. The game could be played in two ways; either map based, taking land, and increasing personal resources, or by mission, such as assination, kill points, take and hold etc.
The second idea was imperial based, and faaar more complicated, but a sight more interesting. Elizabeth pointed out that imperial do not research technology, they did at one point have the most advanced technology, but lost it, and are now attempting to recover it. This is in the books, nothing we've made up. What we put together was that an imperial cruiser came across an unknown planet, which had something that looked previously colonised by them, but far in advance of anything they had ever found. The star system contained several planets, five of them habitable, the inner most planet holding this "weapon", the outer four with defense systems to stop, or to reduce incoming attacks.
The main game idea could take months, possibly a year. The concept was that whilst attacking forces could send reinforcements, the imperial more or less had the system colonised, so the years that took star travel, any casualties were easily replaced (They're imperial, they spread like a disease!). So whilst a win is a win with imperial, the opposition would need to defeat all four exterior planets before making an assault on the inner planet that housed this weapon. Planet environment differing from extreme cold such as fenris, to the dry heat of mars, (We had not got as far as naming planets) with jungle planets, urban built up societies, etc.
So any losses on the opposition would be total loss, the opposition would need to win 4 times in a row before mounting an assault on the planet with the weapon on it. There was a back story that i had wrote - took about a page up, something about making a doughnut out of a planet in a nearby system, that caught the attention of nearby races. Be it a black hole generator (far larger version of the imperial version that makes an apocalypse size vortex grenade), or something that fires a star destroyer (1st edition Eldar had such ships), it doesnt matter.
The Imperial were able to fire on the outer planets, peppering them with blasts, using the multi-blast apoc, rolling a number of times per planet left. This was optional, and was still being discussed as to whether it was too powerful. But Abaddon has it in apoc in both formations. Can't see it being too strange, given how suicidal imperial are.

The Eldar idea was interesting, as I have a 13k army, I could have had the other 4 guys attack me with 4k each, but we never found a venue, or organised either of those two games. Both of them have the potential to be carried on as a campaign, but now they are unable or dont want to play, I got a huge army a bundle of ideas, and nobody to play. Year 2003 I had an insane army, 2nd edition, about 70k of eldar, and gave it away as nobody wanted to play.
Wish I had known of gladiators back then, It's taken me a year to build and paint wha i got, and it's a fraction of it's previous size. I'm not giving this army away though, instead i decided to look for new players. So here I am. I am happy to play any size (Elizabeth likes 1,000 points which can be interesting), any game type. The two ideas above were just plans that never happened.

[mike954]

Hi there, and welcome to the Gladiators. 40k is pretty popular at the club on Mondays and the All Day Sunday events and you won't be short of a game.

For 40k I'm fielding Tyranids at the moment, and would be happy to give you a game or participate in a bigger game. I also have Tau and Khornate Daemons lists. Other factions I've encountered in games at the club include:

[adjudicator]

We'd love more players, however, there are a few ground rules that I would like to set up. My friends and I do not enjoy tank-battles. We do certainly have them, but a wall of super-heavies, armour 14 just is not fun. We would suggest spending no more than 25% on super-heavies, or tank formations. Would be daunting for me to have a bundle of eldar armed to the teeth with chainsaws, and pistols, only to see 8 bane blades on the horizon.
We use normal apoc rules outside of this, writing down how long each side will take to set up, the one with the least time limit required goes first, after no-mans land has been set up, setting up 6" away from no-mans land. half the army set up in first turn, second half in second turn, demons or such being summoned ignore this rule, they come in when it says they do, deep-strike also ignores this rule, and requires a roll. Apoc units cannot be split when setting up, so for instance B could set up a command squad in turn one, (thousand points), and his all-singing, all dancing blood angel apoc unit of doom (4,000 points) in the second, with his deep strike units teleporting down on a successful roll, scattering as normal.
Scouting is slightly different, I believe it's set up from the side, I think. Infiltration is normal, although it is still considered part of the army that is set up, when they are set up. I'm not 100% on these rules, I'm just going over what we used in GWS, and our band of fellas use them as close to the letter as we can. L is our expert on rules (I will be playing space hulk with Elizabeth this monday), please feel free to badger her ^^

cya monday

[michaelanstead]

All sounds like something I could get into :-)

The Imperial defense sounds good for some sort of campaign. I would suggest that each victory (by either side) has an added bonus for that side.

As I see it the ultimate victory is victory on the final planet, maybe destruction of the Weapon or Forge under Imperial protection. Another suggestion I have is that the attacking player can at any time make a run on the centre planet, but with disadvantages dependant on how many planets they have already taken. I mention this because I can very easily see 2 or 3 wins for the attacker and then a loss so he/she would have to start again. But after 2/3 wins the attacker could make a (suicidal) run on the last planet.

What are your thoughts on these?

Michael

[michaelanstead]

A thought on the limit on Super Heavies & Tanks.

I like this idea, perhaps becuase I am also an Eldar player. Would this include Dedicated Transports?

Michael (again)

[anonymice]

hi there im also new to the gladiators and part of adudicators 40k group, i play blood angels and would be interested in playing some games, this monday i have challenged a ultra marine player to a 2k battle.

on the 8th may i may play adjudicator in a 5k battle as micael said he's busy with another game which is ok.

I personally like playing 2vs 2 apoc games i find it a lot more interesting. With the campaign i would be interested but i really dont now how to organise it and im dead against putting limits on anything although i have no super heavies myself i dont want to say to someone they cant use them in a very rare campaign, spending money on them would be in part useless.

on june 12th would anyone be up for a 2v2 apoc game, i have a company of blood angels (as per apoc rules) and a few extra bits

thanks
B

[adjudicator]

After playing against a wall of super heavies that 90% of my force could not even glance, let alone damage (Again, they took no casualties), I AM against more than 25% on super heavies, flyers and tank formations. For instance, I have a falcon squadron (cloudstrike) at 910 points which I would be able to field in a 4k force easily.
With transport, walkers, and other light vehicles it becomes a grey area. Dark eldar for instance have a light transport, being armour 10 with open topped means a shuriken catapult has a good chance of taking it out, whilst it also carries a fairly nasty Str 8 weapon with a decent range. Squad disembarks, cannon fires at oposing APC, squad charges the disembarking crew from the APC in the same turn.
I think it is fair to say that a vehicle created for people transport such as wave serpent is not counted toward tanks, whilst falcons with the same armour, would, as although they can carry upto half the crew as a serpent, they are mainly skimmers with big guns. Wave serpents can carry heavy weapons, as can the Dark Eldar APC, but the weapons are not as powerful as the main cannons on heavier tanks/ skimmers.
So if the squad is allowed a "designated transport", then that transport counts towards the squad, not the heavy allowance, as it would in a normal game. Reasoning behind my huge text is to give an explanation, not a simple yes/no answer.

The Vampire raider is mainly crew carrier, with a capacity of something like 30 troops - but as it is a flyer, it would count toward the heavy section. Apoc allows people to ignore the army structure, carrying say 8 demon princes in a squad, instead of the normal HQ allwance of 2, but I like tactics, getting in to fight with my teeth. Sitting back with an army that consists mainly of Super heavies and Tank formations, I'd suggest fighting an opponent that enjoys it. With every picture I've seen of apoc from GWS, and the many apoc units available, even though a lot of people see apoc as tank battles, it seems geared for large squads, or tactical applications.
Grand court of the young prince is one I would like to try out in a seperate game: Consists of an avatar with bodyguard of warlocks, farseer with bodyguard of warlocks, and one of each aspect squad. Bonus being that each squad gets twin linked and furious charge. A nice unit that costs about 2k, but has nothing in it that can so much as touch a lee-man russ or stormlord, let alone flyers.

Dedicated transport/ walkers yes, heavies/ flyers that can transport troops no. I will have my army on me, unsure of who I'm fighting, what campaign, or size. I would prefer not to bring all of it, so an indication on who would like to play would be good, then we can work out points each? Plus an idea of which campaign people would like to play. (Keep in mind I will not be able to attend the sunday in June).
For the imperial mision, I would suggest the drawback would be that as noted before, the barrage that can be used from the main gun on the inner planet get x number of shots, instead of D3, x being the number of remaining planets, and cannot be used on the main planet at all.
I think suicide runs would be exactly that. I'm not sure how a suicide eun to the inner planet would be worked out. I thought four victories plus the inner planet victory would be suffice to keep the game going for a long time. The other point being that the main gun had structures, buidlings that housed great batteries that required taking out like normal buidlings, but with added reinnforcement. Such as ablative (immune to the extra d6 from tank-buster weapons), Adamantium (Armour 14 instead of normal building armour), and there being a number of batteries to take out. I suggest three to six.
If you can come up with a decent idea for suicide runs, we could think about it, based on number of surviving planets (including the inner planet, I's guess), but it would have to be extremely hard, plus the survivors would face the great army of the imperial, as they're the last form of defense. Maybe the imperial gets x deep-striking units added per turn, x being the number of planets left? Of course, deep strike would have to be rolled as normal.
I Don't know, open to suggestions. Pity Elizabeth doesnt play 40k anymore, she had a fairly scary 9-13k army, including a baneblade and storm lord and a lot of sisters.
cya ^^

[anonymice]

what about stormravens? there flying transporters

[Elle]

Greetings *waves* I'm the Elizabeth that Adjudicator referred to a lot tho I fear he's placed too much favour on my head, hehe.

I'll note that Adjudicator originally placed the limit on Super-Heavies and Tank Formations Generally dedicated transports come under neither of these points ^^
Following Trev's later post, Falcon's aren't dedicated transports as they are Heavy choices which fits the above note. End result is: No more than 25% on Super-Heavy vehicles, Flyers or Tank Formations. This'll also apply to your walker formation Adjudicator, else you'll be allowing mass Dreadnought formations. I'd also suggest adding Gargantuan creatures to the list too.
Anonymice - Stormraven's aren't rulewise (tho Land Raiders are for Blood Angels), Stormraven's are Heavy Support. They aren't Super-Heavy or Formations tho so I wouldn't worry.

On a side-note corrections..
My imperial force (not counting Dark Eldar/Necrons etc) is roughly 13,000pts and just has the two baneblades as super-heavy.
I've stopped playing partly due to silly complaints between friends putting me off the game (will see how that settles down), but mainly because too much of my stuff is unpainted.. >.<

[michaelanstead]

I am up for a 2v2 game. But unfortunately I am away for the June all day sunday. I also have the same problem as Elle, my numbers of painted models is not what is should be.

How about planning something for July, gives us plenty of time to agree on any side rules/limitations to impose and the mission/scenario with any back story we want.

It would also give some of us time to paint up some more models :-D. I have very recently bought the new Eldar Lynx and a Pheonix, cant wait to try it them. Though I am not sure they will arrive in time for my game on the 8th, even if I am up all night building them.

What does everyone think?

Michael

[adjudicator]

The reason why i wanted to include flyers such as stormravens in the 25% was to avoid the 25% being used, and then adding flyers such as stormravens, which by themselves have 14 armour all round, require sixes to hit, and have enough weaponry on them to destroy an entire squad in one turn by themself. They're really scary! For B, he doesnt have that many tanks, as he has pointed out, so I cant see him including his flyer in the 25% as a problem.
B= annony-mouse by the way. A lot of his friends call him B, it's too weird calling him James!

We can start after July if people prefer. I've no bones with that, what struck me as weird was that micheal has the same avatar, is away for june, and typed roughly what I would have typed. Took me a moment to decide whether It was me writing that as some odd split personality? Has Eldar too I believe?
Trev the II !!!! Think that would drive everyone else nuts, if there was two of me.
I'm happy with the imperial idea, L, I know you're not enthusiastic about playing 40k at the moment, but with masses of spare time, would you be so kind as to write up our collective idea of the imperial campaign so far? I have no quarms with copy/ pasting. It is just you are a d**n sight better with rules than I am. Fully inclusive of apoc rules, strategic assests, etc, world environmental effects? There is plenty of time, say 2 months-ish? Not a deadline, just space to work inside.
If you prefer me to do it, I'll try, but I know people will be blowing holes in it before I even start! I'm not very good with rules, as my memory is.... Erm, where was I going with this?

By the way, after my june holiday, I maybe getting either a scorpion, or three hornets. Might get thre hornets, as they would be classed as "fast", not tanks for such battles. But I do love the ridiculous weaponry, and how sexy the scorpion looks!

And how can the walkers be classed as tank formations of heavies - being open topped, a single bolter can kill them. Being in squadron, a 4+ on damage chart to destroy, Armour 10 all round, and +1 on the damage chart for being open topped? a roll of a 3+ destroys it - thas a 66% chart of destroying it, a marine in power armour has better chances of survival! Drednoughts might be classed as heavies, as would a wraithlord, carnifex or wraithseer, as they have high toughness, with 3 wounds, I specifically said walkers, as they are more succeptable to destruction than your paper-weight dark eldar transporters, L. I'm not meaning to be arguamentative, I'm just pointing out that walkers specifically are easy targets.

[michaelanstead]

Yes I am and Eldar player, you are not going crazy :-).

Looked at the hornets too, before choosing the lynx. They felt like a fast war walker (because of the two weapon choices and the scouts rule), but with the pulse laser option and +1 to the armour. Did not look right for me as I already have 6 walkers in my list.

The wraithseer does look awesome as well. I have been moaning about the lack of a wraithlord/d-cannon combination for ages. It is listed as a HQ choice so would get around any limit on heavy choices.

[Elle]

Adjudicator - Stormraven's are armour 12 and not flyers Also Dread's are walkers rulewise!
Maybe you need to have a rethink of this rule, we've not gone into this much detail before *laughs* First you said it was on vehicle, now you want to rule based on armour values xD
Confusion is mostly down to Rule Phases I think.. You say walkers (as the unit), we hear Walkers (as the vehicle type). Same with transports maybe?
~
Maybe simplify the rule like:
No more than 50% on:
* Vehicles with total armour (F+S+R) of 33+
* Flyers (of any armour)
* Creatures with Tgh7+
* No more than 25% of the army can be Super Heavy/Gargantuan.
I doubt anyone'll break that and it still allows Land Raider transport formations etc (long as you spend as much on the troops outside as you do the transports).
If you combine that with 5th Ed rule that "Only Troops selections can take objectives unless the player has the 'Hold at all Costs' Strategic Asset", then you'll be sure to have balanced armies. *smiles* Even with certain characters making lots of things count as troops in 5th Ed codexes.
~
Just a few thoughts ^^

As for designing stuff, you know my preferance is on designing story-based stuff rather than general. I'm not 100% on what was agreed before tho could search our forum.
I could suggest an umpired campaign if you're thinking Eldar vs. Imperial, as I'm not playing.